About the Japanese fansite COMA...

Post by **Merri** » 2006-08-07 09:18

In Firefox: Right click on page > View page info > Media tab > browse through the list and find what you want > Save As

Basically there is no way to prevent copying anything that is in digital format. It can be made hard, but not impossible.

Just as things are with blocking IPs. The blocking can be bypassed. Chinese know this very well and they have all kinds of software that allows passing the preventions put in place by the Chinese government.

The thing is: is it wrong for people to see content made by others?

Maybe YouTube should block all the Japanese, because "it is corrupting the morale".

kaijyuu_m · Post by **kaijyuu_m** » 2006-08-07 15:00

And say that because we post photos, we have a "lack of morals"?? That just takes it to an unbelievable extreme.

Try looking at it from the Japanese point of view though. "Morals" differ between individual persons and/or societies. I guess posting official photos publicly is considered to be a serious no-no in Japan. Obviously we North Americans can be just as ethnocentric at times

Personally, I wish there was a Creative Commons [1] licence for official artist photos and the like. They're much more realistic for the web than International copyright rules.

[1] http://creativecommons.org/

misssakura · Post by **misssakura** » 2006-08-08 04:42

I really don't understand what is going on here. So in Japan it is offensive to post..photos...publicly? I'm confused. Why would you take photos if you aren't allowed to show them to anyone :|

Post by **Merri** » 2006-08-08 09:47

Not just like that: it is offensive to post photos that you have no rights to. If you have the rights for the photo, then it is all ok to post it.

misssakura · Post by **misssakura** » 2006-08-08 10:46

I see. That's ridiculous though, lots of people who take photos want them to be shared as much as possible. That's why youtube has so many dumb attention wh*res who clutter the site up. :evil:

I'd be really flattered if my photos were posted everywhere.

frecklegirl · Post by **frecklegirl** » 2006-08-12 07:41

[quote="Bazaa"]That doesn't make impossible to save the pictures XD Just makes it a bit harder \o/[/quote]

[quote="Merri"]In Firefox: Right click on page > View page info > Media tab > browse through the list and find what you want > Save As

Basically there is no way to prevent copying anything that is in digital format. It can be made hard, but not impossible.[/quote]

Thanks, I did know that. I was just saying as an example, ways of making it harder/discouraging people from copying things.

usshy-coma · Post by **usshy-coma** » 2006-08-17 05:31

Hi.I'm Coma's webmaster.

I explain why I reject foreign hosts in Japanese.
Please translate the following sentences.

delipopのように日本流のモラルを理解している方も多いとは思います。
そういう人には大変申し訳ないと思ってます。
右クリック保存は別に悪いことではありません。

しかし、特に中国系や韓国系の真綾さんのファンサイトやブログでは、
公式サイトは情報ページの画像を無断で自身のサイトに載せている、
という光景がたくさん見られます。私はそれを見るたびに悲しくなります。
私のサイトの写真までところどころで見かけました。
ひどい所では、ビタミンMのテキストを載せているサイトの文章を
スタイルごと全てコピー&ペーストしているサイトを見て、あきれました。
http://sakamotomaaya.spaces.live.com/PersonalSpace.aspx

海外のサイトが私のサイトを見て、それを引用する。
それ自体は構わないし、海外の人が情報を入手しやすくなると思います。
しかし、引用したサイトからさらに広がって、他のところで写真や文章を無断使用されるようなら、私は情報源になりたくない。

もちろんこの方法にも限界があって、結局情報源となってしまうことも
わかっています。それでも最低限の処置はしたいのです。

Post by **dillpops** » 2006-08-18 02:20

A translation by an online site:

I think that it is also more to understand the morality of the Japan
style like delipop. It feels sorry very much in such a person. The
right-clicking preservation is not bad separately.

However, a lot of spectacles that an official site puts the image on
the information page on the site without permission are seen in fan
site and Brog of especially Chinese, Korean Mr. Maaya. Whenever it is
seen, I become sad. Was seen to the photograph on my site in parts.
Because the site where all sentences of the site where the text of
vitamin M was put were done pasting copy & in each style was seen, it
was amazed in an awful place.
http://sakamotomaaya.spaces.live.com/PersonalSpace.aspx

An overseas site sees my site, and it is quoted. I think that it becomes easy not to care about it, and for an overseas person to obtain intelligence. However, if it extends from the quoted site further, and the photograph and sentences are used in the other without permission, I do not want to become a source.

It is understood for the limit to exist of course also in this method,
and to become a source after all. Still, I want to treat minimum.

Basically, he says that COMA being a source of information for foreign fans is one thing, but it becomes too much when pictures and text is taken directly and not credited or done too much because it's like...its not done with permission from Usshy. He doesn't want to be the only source that is copied for Maaya and especially if permission is not asked or things are taken directly.

I think, paraphrasing it.

Sora · Post by **Sora** » 2006-08-20 03:14

Hope I stayed close enough to his own words...

Notes : the first paragraph may seem a bit desultory, but I assume he is just answering to what people have been talking about before his own post.

Like delipop (Dillpops ?), I think that there are many ways to understand the Japanese moral codes ("Japanese kind of moral").
I think such people [using pictures and texts without permission I guess] are hardly excusable.
Preventing the right click isn't particularly something bad.

However, especially in the Chinese and Korean fansites or blogs, I often see such scenes as pictures from the official news page used without permission. Everytime I see this, it makes me sad. I even saw some pictures from my own site on some of them. In one of those awful places where is published the text from Vitamin M (one of Maaya's radio shows), I saw all the sentences altogether with the style were just completely copied and pasted, and it appalled me.

http://sakamotomaaya.spaces.live.com/PersonalSpace.aspx

Foreign websites [webmasters] watch my website, and they quote it.
I don't mind this, I think [looking at my website] makes it easier for foreign people to obtain informations.
However, the number of websites quoting mine is growing, other places using pictures and articles without permission too, and I don't want to become the source of informations [for these people].

Of course this system [blocking IPs] has its limits too, and I'm aware I will still eventually become the source of informations. But I still want to take minimum measures.

Tenson · Post by **Tenson** » 2006-08-20 11:00

So, if I have understand well, he doesn't want to become the source of informations for people who use pictures and articles without permission. :roll:

Post by **dillpops** » 2006-08-20 13:22

Well, Sangye's site he showed us....there's a lot of stuff I can see why Coma would mention it, I feel kinda weird looking at it too. Especially the stuff officially taken from Maaya's site - wouldn't a link be fine?

Sora · Post by **Sora** » 2006-08-20 21:25

He doesn't want people who use to just copy and paste do this with his own site anymore, and that's why he is blocking IPs ; even though he is aware not all foreigners are acting this way and he seems to be happy his site can help us, he had to take some measures and do something against the growing number of people using things without his permission.

That's something I can understand and I think we should respect his choice ; yes it's a pity he is blocking us, but we forgot he helped us A LOT in the first place. We should be more thankful and try to search for informations about Maaya on our own instead of relying on only one website for all... don't you think so ?

As for Sangye's page, I don't think that's the real problem ; she's not the first one who disregards - on purpose or not - the copyrights. I have myself pictures coming from some Japanese/foreign websites published on my own site ; most of those websites have disappeared by now, and I'm sure people are glad I archived those files.

Maybe Sangye went too far literally copying and pasting the pictures and the text styles to her own blog, but did someone explain to her it was wrong and try to know the reasons why she did so ? Not everybody using internet is aware of the copyrigh laws or really understand them (or want to understand them), and stabbing people in the back is as glorious as copying and pasting someone else's work in my opinion. But if Coma's webmaster has already tried to email her several times to let her know his opinion and she never answered, then forget what I just said, though there are still chances for her not to have understand anything (both her and Coma's webmaster don't speak English very well so it's easy to misunderstand things).

I'm trying to be as objective as one can be and not stand especially by anyone's side, but in the end it is just my point of view, so if you disagree, feel free to express your own !

Post by **dillpops** » 2006-08-20 22:23

Sora, we do understand the reasoning behind his judgement and the actions taken. But I don't think that blocking all foreign IP's is something that solves the problem. For one, it's still possible to access the site, especially for the people who will be plagerising (I'm guessing they are internet savvy) and two, it gives the impression that all the foreign visitors are at fault when this isn't true. It ends up looking xenophobic.

Unfortunately, this is the only course of action that can be taken it seems.

I don't think sites that archive pictures and quote (with credit given) are immoral - they are valuable resources, this is why so many fansites exist. I think because Maaya has so few fansites and such a personal fanbase (especially internationally) that it's just easier to notice and point fingers. It can easily become vigilanteism.

Although I understand his position on the content of his own site (if he writes the posts then it is his material) but it's not COMA's position to police the fans in the wider community who use the links provided. Even without going to his page it is possible to find the pages and copy the pictures and information on the Newtype page etc. The links are available.

I'm sorry that his writing was sourced without credit, but to the sites he does not own it's difficult to control.

I think this thread is gonna become a mudwrestle :lol: don't you think we should get naked sora and tustle it out in the rain? It's rare that you and me rant on the same thread. Where have you been? We missed you!!

I don't wanna tread on anyone's toes, as Sora said, it's all opinion.

[/url] <--- EDIT: I have no clue where this came from in my post, maybe I got too heated

Post by **Merri** » 2006-08-21 00:51

Which is more important on the Internet: content that can be found or people getting recognition of what they've done? Latter would be nice personally, but everyone are taking advantage of the content.

For example, I'd love to get recognition of the code I've shared and of the skills that I have, but that rarely happens. Yet people often just get the code I've done (= content) and be happy that they found it. And still that's ok for me because I can in turn get other content off the web. Thus contribution is more important than recognition.

In my eyes he is "just" blocking the content and preventing it from spreading and preserving in the Internet. You never know if a site shuts down: you can be certain the content gets lost over time if some place is the only source for something.

Just general thoughts that came into my mind on this topic.

misssakura · Post by **misssakura** » 2006-08-21 04:45

The ONLY person who owns the rights to the images is the person who TOOK THE PHOTOS. Coma does NOT own any of these photos unless he took them with his own camera. Scanning a photo does NOT mean that you have the right to the image either.

Unless the photographer comes out and says 'you cannot use my photograph', nobody can contest rights over them, even if they 'found them first', I HATE going to Japanese websites because I cannot speak Japanese, i've tried, but i'm bad at languages. I'd rather go to a french or english website to find information. I don't have enough money to visit Japan or go and live there permanently just to stalk Maaya to find out what she is doing every minute of her life.

The internet is a place for fandom. If these photos were never published on the net, I wouldn't know about Maaya, I wouldn't care, and it wouldn't make me buy anything either.

I understand about not scanning from published material, but as far as things like tour photos, studio photos, interviews etc go, they're public domain as far as i'm concerned. Its publicity that works well for everybody, fans love Maaya more, buy more of her merchandise, the word spreads.

The point i'm making is that unless the posting of images are detrimental to the artist, due to poor public image, or loss of profit from published works readily available to the public (not including fan material which cannot be purchased at any online shop), then there is only loss to be made from making these harsh and insulting comments regarding 'morals'. It makes me dislike Japan, it makes me dislike the webmaster, and in a way it sort of makes me resent Maaya, through no fault of her own.

So please, don't be a webmaster if these are your petty attitudes. People should only be webmasters if they want to share about something they love.

You do not own her. None of us do. But at least we can get a glimpse into her world once in a while.

I hate hoarders.

:?

I'd be more offended if somebody stole my words, if I wrote a long article about somebody, or an exclusive interview, or maybe even published news exlusively, and then somebody from another website came along and without linking to my site, just posted up the content. I find that far more offensive..the same with coding.

As a question of interest, can anybody here name the photographer for every single Maaya photograph here?