On the wiki / main site

[Merri]

I started off the wiki earlier this year, but it never really catched on as I didn't get it visible anywhere and I didn't have any energy to throw at it to really have anything there.

Anyway, what I've thought about it is that it can be used for building some content to the site. What exactly that content is, I don't know, that depends on what you want to give here and whether you want to let others have the rights to modify what you've given. That is how a wiki works, for the most part.

For now the only questions I can ask are:

• What would you like to see on this site?
• What could you provide?
• What do you think of the current license selected? (CC Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported | note: you can post stuff using other license, but you have to state this on the page)

The wiki is DokuWiki, which has a bit different syntax from MediaWiki (= Wikipedia, Wikia & many other sites). It shouldn't be too hard though.

For the moment I have no plans of removing the wiki. I think I let it run atleast a year more. If it is still about as empty as it is now then I'll simply remove it.

The wiki has the same user account as the forum!
But you have to login separately.

[nijibug]

I really like the idea of a wiki that all Maaya fans could potentially contribute to. The info that you have up so far is useful and should definitely stay.

I read in another thread that having lyrics was a possibility? There are already a number of established lyrics/translation sites for Maaya and even some pretty comprehensive ones (frecklegirl's, par exemple), so I don't know if consolidating that info here on the wiki is the best idea, but it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea.

And of course, getting Maaya news over here would be lovely too!

[Merri]

Yeah, there are a lot of lyrics available, with translations. The problem with the license stuff I meantioned is what prevents direct copy without any permission, because most often translations someone has made are theirs in that you just can't go ahead and copy it to a wiki and let others have a possibility to modify them.

What can be done with lyrics is to link to sources, especially translations. I guess having the official unmodified lyrics on the site shouldn't be a problem. The problem is with translations. I guess it could be a possibility to ask to have them here and make a note about the license; or then simply write that the translated lyrics shouldn't be modified if the "license" is different.

Oh, and marking sources is important.

[nijibug]

For now there seem to be some redirection (or do I mean direction?) issues- for instance

1) By clicking the link in the header from the forum, it takes you to the mainpage at maayas.net BUT if you click on the header from any page on the main site, it redirects you to a page that has not been created yet. So should a single link be set for the header (one that only links to the main page)?

2) By google-searching keywords/topics, the google links are of course still directing to the old urls (for instance, http://maayas.net/viewtopic.php?t=1046& ... d66c78dfbb and so on) since we recently restructured. This would also be true for any old off-site links to discussions here on maayas. Should we create a sort of 404 redirect page for this temporarily? Or at least somehow direct people to the forums? (Because of the first problem I mentioned in this list, clicking the header on the 'does not exist' page only takes you to /everywhere/ - yet another 'does not exist' page).

And back on the lyrics -
Posting the kanji here shouldn't be an issue, but as you mentioned, there may be some permissions complications when it comes to romaji and certainly translations. We should get dillpops and frecklegirl's input on this?

[Merri]

I know about the forum links issues: I'll look at them and try to setup a redirection. Note that this may not work: I'm afraid the topic & post IDs may have changed :/

As for the header issue: darn, I fixed that one already! Maybe there is some cache issue going on, the file is OK. For now I guess I'll just add a quick redirection of "everywhere" and hope the cache eventually clears up.

Edit!
Header fixed again (should eventually get out of cache, too).
Redirection for /everywhere/ added.
Redirection for viewtopic needs PHP coding to figure out which thread is in question, not an easy task that one :/

[nijibug]

Will there be any copyright issues with putting images in our wiki? If not, I think we can start by snatching album covers from websites that sell CDs :'D

[dillpops]

On lyrics. From past experience with an Ayumi Hamasaki lyrics archive, I remember the owner got told by the copyright people from Japan that he wasn't allowed to put up the original Japanese lyrics i.e. in kana and kanji. He had to take them all down. But he just kept putting up romaji and translations, and there's so many sites doing that and I haven't seen them taken down...

As long as we avoid the original Japanese it might be ok...?

Maybe a link archive to those sorts of places would be better though. I think, for example, Frecklegirl, would rather people be directed to her site than to see all her work duplicated here.

A 'news' page might not go amiss though.

[nijibug]

On lyrics. From past experience with an Ayumi Hamasaki lyrics archive, I remember the owner got told by the copyright people from Japan that he wasn't allowed to put up the original Japanese lyrics i.e. in kana and kanji. He had to take them all down. But he just kept putting up romaji and translations, and there's so many sites doing that and I haven't seen them taken down...

As long as we avoid the original Japanese it might be ok...?

Maybe a link archive to those sorts of places would be better though. I think, for example, Frecklegirl, would rather people be directed to her site than to see all her work duplicated here.

A 'news' page might not go amiss though.

That's interesting to note. I always figured romaji might be the issue because whoever first transcribed it would want credit, but now that I think about it... a source is nigh impossible to track down

You're right, we'll probably end up with links to popular translations on the net. We could have a section on 'about the song' for each track, maybe note anything interesting like "This was the ending theme for [insert title here]" or "This was a collaboration with [so-and-so]" etc. And maybe note what concerts/appearances she made with that particular song.

I'm still unsure about photos and official art though, but I feel like there would be a copyright issue there?

[Merri]

Yeah, technically there is. I think we can get past the copyright issue by adding links to some online shops, which kind of would make the image/photo like a free advertisement and much more OK for Victor & flying dog. If I recall correctly adding a "low resolution" image that is alongside a review/article of a product is considered "fair use" in the US law. Of course the Finnish law would probably be more effective as the maayas.net server is located in Finland...

I've had to take a look at copyright issues on my biggest site, even though we haven't ever been contacted on copyright issues. But images are the hardest thing to live with. We can't have huge "perfect quality" images for sure; people can attach them to the forums, but on the wiki we can't do that.

[deltafour]

• What do you think of the current license selected? (CC Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 Unported | note: you can post stuff using other license, but you have to state this on the page)

I like this license -- it's a good mix of letting people use the content elsewhere while making sure credit is given where credit is due. I've been meaning to change my site to this license for a while, and I finally got around to doing that today. So if anyone wants to copy something I've translated into the wiki, go right ahead.

As far as what should be in the wiki, although there are a lot of straight discography sites, I don't think there are many (any?) that include background information for individual songs. Things like Maaya's thoughts on the lyrics, what was going on at the time it was written, and so forth. A translation of the lyrics is a must, but sometimes you don't get the whole picture unless you pull from other sources like interviews and essays.

[nijibug]

Should we place a link to the forum in the header as well? Just mentioned this because as I was editing the wiki pages, I looked up a couple of times expecting to find a forum link, hehe :3

[Merri]

I'll work with the navigation some day ("You are here"). I think the forum & wiki navigation systems should be positioned the same way and look the same too.

So it is just some more work on the design to make things integrate better to each other so people don't really need to think about it, just use

[nijibug]

I took a shot at making a wiki page for one of the songs. This page is just experimental:
http://maayas.net/discography/songs/hello

How does it look? What's extra? What's still needed? (I wonder if quoting a bit of the lyrics + a summary is a work-around for copying an entire translation?)

---

Also, I wonder if there is a wikidoku equivalent to the mediawiki "Infobox"? I looked at the formatting syntax page and could find anything, so I don't know if it's an additional plugin or something. I think an "Infobox" might be a better feature on album and song pages for little bits of information to be collected (like release date, song length, and so on).

---

Ah, ignore my Infobox rambling! :'D
I think there's a work around in using tables. I'll fiddle around with that and see how it works on one of the album pages.

[Merri]

I think Trivia can be removed and instead all such information included in other places.

I guess these things would work:

• Introduction: what it is, where it first appeared? Any other appearances?
• Lyrics: what the lyrics are about? Who wrote them, when? Any translations available? (link to source!)
• Music: what the song sounds alike, which genres it fits? Who composed & arranged the song, when? Are there other versions of this song, how they're different?
• Articles: are there any magazines or websites with articles that mention this song? What they say?
• Lives: which Maaya's live appearances have featured this song?
• Links: Last.fm, YouTube, a lyrics site?
• References (as footnotes; do we need a refnotes plugin?)

That is pretty much as complete as I can think it.

[Merri]

still directing to the old urls (for instance, http://maayas.net/viewtopic.php?t=1046

This issue is now fixed. I thought of the simplest possible method to do it and it seems to work