Beautiful words, ugly words: the sound of a language

misssakura · Post by **misssakura** » 2006-01-01 09:47

Split from Yuunagi Loop lyrics topic.

bangs = fringe

I think bangs is a horrendous word, its so incredibly ugly

frecklegirl · Post by **frecklegirl** » 2006-01-01 09:54

[quote="misssakura"]I think bangs is a horrendous word, its so incredibly ugly

[/quote]

That is too bad, because fringe sounds equally weird to me!

frecklegirl · Post by **frecklegirl** » 2006-01-02 07:19

[quote="Merri"]English isn't a very beautiful language. You know... "beautiful" is a horrible word as well. So it can't really be a beatiful language because even the beautiful sounds and looks ugly.[/quote]

Nooo! Beautiful IS a beautiful word!

Oh no, we can't get into a language fight though. XD

But seriously... everybody thinks certain other languages sound harsh and ugly. For example, German still sounds that way to me, though I'm sure if I studied it as I have Spanish, French and Japanese, it would sound as beautiful to me as they do.

Please don't insult English, if you're not prepared to accept that your own language could be perceived in the exact same way to others who don't speak it. And don't make judgments about other languages if you're not even a native speaker! That's just mean :/

Sora · Post by **Sora** » 2006-01-02 17:30

We're going off topic guys~~~~^^;;;;;

But it's true that what you said Merri sounded pretty mean... :(

... and by the way I think "beautiful" sounds and looks beautiful^^ it's just subjectivity in the end, as frecklegirl said, it depends a lot on the experience you got with the language ; concerning "bangs" (which was the subject at the beginning^^), I don't like that word a lot, but I think it's because it always reminds me of the onomatopoeia for guns sound in comics ><;;;;;[/size]

Tenson · Post by **Tenson** » 2006-01-02 20:09

I think Merri was just joking :3

Btw, I really like to hear a girl whispering japanese; it's suuuuch.... errrr, let's say... relaxing :evil:

Noinini · Post by **Noinini** » 2006-01-02 21:57

[quote="frecklegirl"]But seriously... everybody thinks certain other languages sound harsh and ugly. For example, German still sounds that way to me, though I'm sure if I studied it as I have Spanish, French and Japanese, it would sound as beautiful to me as they do.[/quote]

Ohhh, "harsh and ugly" is a bit too much. ^.^; I don't really like German myself, but it's not -that- bad.

Annnd... well, it's all highly subjective, but I think that one can still express one's opinions (in some other thread maybe ^.^; ). I myself only love French, anything else can't come close to its beauty. :3
One thing I really don't get, though, is why people who aren't Native Speakers shouldn't be allowed to judge other languages. That's, er... weird? A little insulting to me, personally, because I think I can judge English better than a whole bunch of half-literate so-called Native Speakers - I'm not talking about you at all, but about people who mess up their grammar and spelling whereever they go while they should be old enough to have learned it. I surely don't think their judgment quite sizes up to mine, for example.[/size]

frecklegirl · Post by **frecklegirl** » 2006-01-03 01:14

[quote="Noinini"]Ohhh, "harsh and ugly" is a bit too much. ^.^; I don't really like German myself, but it's not -that- bad.

[/quote]

I didn't mean specifically German. I was just referring to how if you're not familiar with a language, it can sound that way to your ears, much the same way Merri thinks of English. Nothing personal against German~ I listen to some music in German and I don't think THAT sounds harsh and ugly. I was just making a generalization.

And I didn't mean grammar judgment. But the ability to make sweeping judgments like "Such-and-such isn't a pretty-sounding word" should only be reserved for, I didn't mean just native speakers, but those with a good deal of familiarity with the language. Specifically, people who have gone to a place where the language is spoken and gained a deeper understanding of the language and the culture. etc~

Post by **Merri** » 2006-01-03 06:16

A bit oversensitive, aren't we? As Tenson guessed, I wasn't writing that in a very serious mode (although it is true that I think beautiful isn't a beautiful word). English has its moments when it sounds nice, but also has its moments of sounding horrible: and every language has this problem.

I did catch this:

[quote="frecklegirl"]I was just referring to how if you're not familiar with a language, it can sound that way to your ears, much the same way Merri thinks of English.[/quote]

You're telling me I'm not familiar with English?

Actually, I think it makes harder to judge what a language sounds alike when you know it too well: you get messed up with the meaning of the words instead of just paying attention to the sound. The earlier you learn a language, the harder it is to fool your brain to ignore the meaning of the sound. This way what you think of the meaning changes the way you think of the sound: for example, if you have a lot of affection to moments the word "beautiful" is said, then you of course think good of it. I don't have a good memory of the word, but I can't tell if my opinion isn't any more messed up as yours: I don't have any clear memory of the word being used anywhere, but some bad memory still might affect the way I think of the word. Human brain is so lovely.

On musical side, I don't really care about the lyrics: I'll rather ignore them. And it is easier to ignore when you don't know the language. I don't really listen to a lot of Finnish and English music due to this: I like music that has a good sound into it and I don't want the meaning of the lyrics to mess it up. But I can still read the translated lyrics of Maaya's songs, because that doesn't change the way I like many of her songs sound.

Why I told this... well, I guess it just gives a better image of how I think about sound.

I'll see if I can cut all this offtopic to its own topic.

Edit: And one thing what bothers me in English: the use of word "you" like I've used in this message. For example: "of course you think...". I don't know if there is a more neutral way to do this in English, I've found this to be the standard way people use English. In Finnish I'd make no "you" references at all, though I think "you" in this case is used without it actually being you. This is a structural thing about a language to think about.

Sora · Post by **Sora** » 2006-01-03 10:20

Nee Merri, your message about the word beautiful stayed in the other topic o_O

P.S. : maybe you could have used some smileys to make sure nobody would think you were very serious about it..? o_o[/size]

P.S. n°2 : 555th post ! ^o^ how much I like this number~^^[/size]

Noinini · Post by **Noinini** » 2006-01-03 10:47

@frecklegirl: I think you mean to say that one shouldn't judge something one doesn't know, right? I hope so, because you still come off as very elitist otherwise.

Personally, I think that for example Merri has definitely heard the word "beautiful" often enough to be able to form his opinion about it, whether he has travelled through the marshes of Ireland, seen the buzz of London or tanned himself all around in California - or not. And even if he just reads it and thinks to himself "urgh, that word sure looks odd", that's up to him to say because it's more of an aesthetic thing to like the look of something or not.

Sorry for setting you up as an example and sending you around the world, Merri. ^.^;;

Actually, does that mean that I can say that American English as a whole sucks, just because I have experienced it, and anyone else who knows American English only out of series, music and CNN can't? I don't get that. I mean, I agree that someone who doesn't know something really shouldn't speak badly about it, but the way you're explaining things sounds too harsh to me. T__T

Post by **dillpops** » 2006-01-03 17:02

I HATE slang for Christmas in english - it sounds awful and horrid to me: Chrimbo. I HATE HATE HATE 'crimbo'. Ugh. Makes me shudder.

Chibikko · Post by **Chibikko** » 2006-01-03 17:58

[quote="dillpops"]Chrimbo[/quote]

I have never heard that word before....where did it come from?

There are a lot of English words I don't like for various reasons.
I don't like body in particular. There's something creepy about it...

I do like some weird words though, like Bungalo or Pustulence.

^_^

English, I don't think is a very pretty language..it always breaks its own rules and is just generally difficult.

frecklegirl · Post by **frecklegirl** » 2006-01-03 22:01

[quote="Noinini"]@frecklegirl: I think you mean to say that one shouldn't judge something one doesn't know, right? I hope so, because you still come off as very elitist otherwise.

\[/quote]

Yes, that's what I meant ^^; It's hard for me to explain this sort of thing because it's one of those things that makes a lot of sense in your head but can't always be expressed perfectly. So if I seemed like I was getting defensive (thanks, Merri)... it's more like I was just having a hard time finding the right words so I didn't come off in a bad way. :/

[quote="dillpops"]I HATE slang for Christmas in english - it sounds awful and horrid to me: Chrimbo. I HATE HATE HATE 'crimbo'. Ugh. Makes me shudder.[/quote]

I've heard of that word before, and some other British shortenings like blodge (biology), lippy (lipstick), etc. They all seem so strange to me XD Yet cute; I generally find most British-isms very amusing and am also a bit envious that our American terms don't sound as cool somehow. I also have a friend in Scotland who hates the term "snogging" and is angry that it's all over the Harry Potter books. *laughs*

frecklegirl · Post by **frecklegirl** » 2006-01-03 22:05

Also, I don't remember where the sukoshi = skosh thing was, but actually! "Skosh" DID come from "sukoshi", so I was *hides head in shaame* wrong!! XD Tis all right. I still maintain that most American people have no clue the word even originated from Japanese (since I didn't, after all). And I wonder how it did make its way into the language?? Perhaps troops stationed in Japan after all, as Merri suggested... hmm!

misssakura · Post by **misssakura** » 2006-01-03 22:26

Personally, sometimes, I find french very hard to take. I've grown up around it all my life and sometimse it just jangles my nerves, particularly southern french. The same for chinese, although I haven't grown up around it, i've been living with some chinese people in Auckland, and only one I know is eloquent and makes the language sound attractive. Then again, its much the same in the UK, hear an essex girl speak english and its the most unattractive sound in the world.